A: My mother tongue is Hungarian.
I have deep knowledge of the Hungarian language. No philosophical or
other knowledge, but of the language itself.
Knowledge of languages leads to knowledge of other fields.
Hungarian is very different from the Western languages, which I speak,
also French. Moreover, the Hungarian language does not resemble Hebrew either.
I miss two things: the knowledge of Hungarian literature, although I
subsequently began to read Hungarian authors, as well as knowledge of
phonetics. I did not know, for example, if the sound "bi" is
bilabial, nor what is a guttural sound.
I was mainly interested in phonetics, but not in semantics, more in
sound, less in meaning. This is related to music, which is my job. I hear the
language more with my musical ear.
However, it is impossible to be interested in sound without taking an
interest in meaning. The reverse is not possible either.
The languages are all related to one another. For example,
onomatopoeias can be found in words. The verb "to squeal" makes
imagine the peeping of a bird. Thus, languages all have similarities.
What is interesting with the Hungarian is that seventy percent of the
words are related to the affect, not just with the meaning. We say what we
feel. This reduces the gap between semantics and phonetics.
The different languages are made in such a way that virtually none
(each person, person) understand the language of the other.
Each language has its harmony. There are the acute consonants,
"a", "e", "i", "u", the serious consonants,
"o", "or", "au". One can switch from one vowel to
another, but they are all separated from one another.
At the age of twenty-four I left Hungary. I got a "western
brainwashing". When you speak French, you articulate your face in a
different way than when you speak Hungarian. I made it. I moved away from
Hungarian and was close to French. I spoke Hungarian only with my mother and
Hedi Tarjàn.
Since the death of Hedi, four years ago, I speak virtually no longer
Hungarian. I do not miss much.
A year ago, I gave a concert. A Hungarian musician came to accompany me.
He stayed at my house for a week. One day he had to go to Roger's. It was not
conveyed. He was outside, waiting for bus number five. He waited half an hour
under the sun. He was going to explode with impatience. At one stroke, he
thought, in order to optimize his time, to sing a Hungarian song with the sound
"e". The "e" Hungarian is very different, it is more like
"che". He began to sing this song, which included thirty
"e". It sounded aggressive.
The sound "é" is celestial, luminous. The "è" sound
is more related to strength. The "e" is quite different.
I realized that the most beautiful songs in French and English, I cannot
appreciate them as I appreciate the Hungarian. Hungarian writing interests me
less than French writing. But, as for the songs, I appreciate less the songs in
French.
I wanted to write lyrics, in the form of songs. But these were not songs
written because I feel or think something, but to play with words. The
sentences came out on my own.
One cannot go from a continuity of sounds in "b" to sounds in
"g".
He who speaks a language cannot hear it as someone who does not speak
it.
For seven years I spoke very little of Hungarian, and suddenly I decided
to write Hungarian. Why songs? It was not for me to do psychotherapy. I felt
that my brain was ordering me to go in that direction.
The image I have of myself is not that of a man of eighty-one, nor of a
professor, nor of an Israeli, nor of a Frenchman, A Hungarian. Not the Hungarian
I am now, but the Hungarian child I was. It is about doing archaeological
research in my brain. Archeology has produced very strong results.
Why should we always measure rhythm? This is related to words. This
allows you to play word games.
I have read that the writing of a song comes from musical thought.
Once the liberty of the letters acquired, thanks to the reading, one has
the possibility to play with, and they bring us towards more depth.
I discovered that man has the strength to actualize his memories,
whether his memories of childhood or other memories. I am known as a
"memory", according to the memory of each one. But that does not even
represent one percent of what I know myself.
I understood that language, with sound combinations, creates codes. We
start with a code, and then a buried memory comes out suddenly. Wonderful
things come out of me, the old man, the religious man...
I recently read a text by Carl Jung, a well-known psychologist. In this
text, he explains that he had noticed that he liked to have fun by lining up
small cubes. So he figured there was a part of him that liked to play. This has
revealed wonderful things. When we play, we open the doors of imagination and
creation.
I am not a surrealist who only transcribes emotions. I also try to write
meaningful texts. I do not behave like an avant-garde separating from all
meaning. I behave like a client: first, the affect, and then the intellect. If
we start directly with the intellect, we cannot move forward. I have already
explained this at several conferences, quoting Rav Chla *. We cannot begin with
what is more visceral. In order to learn a language, one begins to learn the
pronunciation of letters. It is noticed that the Jews have known the Hebrew
language in its least detail for more than two thousand years. I do not think
that was the case with the Hungarians. What I know about the Hungarian language
is different; it is a language that seems to have no codes.
I would like to take a few minutes and reflect on the teaching of the
pronunciation of letters. I will let you speak as much time as you wish. Next,
we will continue to discuss this subject, but about Hebrew.
• Rabbi Yeshaya Horowitz, commonly known as Chlah Hakadoch.
Born in 1558 in Prague, he was very early designated as an authority of
his generation.
President of the rabbinical court and leader of Yeshiva, he travels all
over Europe before settling in Israel. He meets there
The greatest of Judaism such as Rabbi Yosef Qaro, or the Ari Zal, and
took advantage of his proximity to visit the greatest rabbis in Orient in
Salonika, Aleppo and discover in the passage to Damascus the manuscript Êts'
Hayim of Rav H 'ayim Vital.
It is in Israel also that Chlah Hakadoch writes his main work:
The two tables of the Covenant, Shui'i Louh 'ot Habrit.
Buried beside the tomb of Maimonides in 1628, this seasoned cabalist has
left treasures of study to the succeeding generations as well as a very special
prayer intended to protect the children and to assure them a bright future.
The musician flute player, André’s friend: Good evening.
My angle of view is related to André's musical work. For a few years
now, I've been involved in his musical projects, I've been talking a lot with
him, and so I see the progress of the stages. I will explain a few points about
this.
André does not limit me. After I finish speaking, we will continue with
a song by André.
According to the Kabbalah, Moses is called "source of wisdom."
There is a book that speaks of this, "Or dorot gold" ("The Light
of Generations"). The letter "alef" is mentioned. But not just
the letter itself, but how it works. If we say "alef", we start with
an "a", and we end with the end of "a". Indeed, one cannot
pronounce a letter in Hebrew if it is not punctuated. A letter not punctuated
is like a soulless body. A non-punctuated "alef" has no movement, and
is therefore empty. The book explains therefore that if one pronounces an
"alef", one pronounces two, in truth. But if this is the case, then
the first "alef" is it composed of two "alef". The first
"alef" opens the sound. Then there is the "alef" which
follows, then that of the sequence leading to the end, which proves that the
second "alef" is itself also, composed of two "alef".
According to this logic, we arrive at eight "alef". I do not exactly
remember if the author reaches a total of sixteen, but in any case this subject
is mainly referred to in the book. There is no other subject. What is it about?
We recently talked about the newborn cry. A voice comes out, which is
his first emanation. A baby is born, and exists, not only physically, leaving
the matrix of his mother, but also through his voice, which is expressed by a
long "a". The book talks about it. It can be read explicitly.
It evokes the parsha of the song of Moses at the opening of the Reed Sea
("az yachir Moche"). It is written, "Thus shall Moses sing this
song," at the time of the opening of the Reed Sea. The Jewish people came
out of Egypt, and saw all the great miracles that were happening then. They saw
something called "az" (so, so).
The letter "alef", of the word "az", is the same as
the one we have evoked, the same first cry. A white light, imperceptible. It’s
brighter than the Sun. It’s a light which we can’t understand. Like the cry of
the newborn. It’s a long "a". It’s an infinite light, which we can’t
understand.
The letter "zain", of the word "az", is a prism. The
prism is a glass diffusing light in seven directions. The first voice, the
first cry is incomprehensible, transcendent, like air. It comes out directly in
the form of an "a". It is infinite, it is not significant. Then, the
tongue intervenes, after the throat. It acts as screens, separations, closing
the air, giving a shape, specific sounds. This gives rise to different graphic
shapes. The different sounds, "m", "t", "k" ...
are separations.
If one sees that there are different colors, as can be seen in the
paintings of Roger Ychaï exhibited in this studio in Haoman 18, Haoman Haï, the
living artist before us, there are also different sounds, no matter how many.
In the color scale, the sound "i" corresponds to white and yellow,
the sound "é" corresponds to the color orange. The brightest colors
are yellow and orange. Then comes the "è", the dark orange color. The
red corresponds to "a". The "o" is brown, the
"or" is dark green. I pronounce the sounds down to the deepest:
"i", "é", "è", "a", "o",
"or". I’m reaching the most serious note, the basic, deep, dark tone.
From the consonants and the vowels, one takes the "a" first, and
then one joins it to the emotion. This is where the song of Moses begins. It
begins with this first "a", deep for him, probably related to his
memories of childhood. It reveals something deep and rare. It can exploit new
horizons. But it begins with this profound appeal. We are invited to listen to
his words.
In the classical order of music, playing a wind instrument, which is
air, then voice, then speech, there is the air that comes first, which brings
the musical instrument out the "a" first. Then the musician
intersects this with movements of his mouth. If one draws forms that one does
not always understand, whether by rhythm, or by emotion, one arrives at a
result that one understands, but not in a philosophical way. How does a first
word translate into too philosophical or conceptual?
I am not trying to bring several ideas. The essential idea is through
sounds.
Today we can measure and define everything. What is metal, what is a
carpet, what is the body, what is tissue, what is oxygen?
All this is explained precisely by chemistry.
But before this concept of molecules was discovered, what were the tools
used by wise men and intellectuals? There have always been wise men and
intellectuals in all generations. But what did they have as a tool before
having refined the precisions we have in our time? What is the difference
between a flower and a glass? One can answer that one is natural and the other
chemical, but what is the essential difference? Could it be that one is cold
and the other hot?
The following idea has been developed: if I tell you that in fact all
sounds are specific but all have the same origin, the same primary alef, which
is the original white light broken by all the physical elements, then I can
tell you the same thing about the matter. The material is divided into several
elements. According to the Kabbalah, everything is preceded by a first light.
There must therefore also be a raw material. If a raw material exists, then I
can move money without money to gold.
The book "Light of Generations" does not tell anything.
We do not work in the field of physics. It is not a simple classical
music, which says "yes" or "no". It is an original source,
which interests us, and on which we rely, in order to understand that everywhere
there is an original understanding, which binds everything together. The
acoustic elements are linked without necessarily semantics. It is also a gift
given to all, who perceives according to its way.
I'm finished. Thank you very much.
A: I have distributed texts to you. I have drawn diagrams, which will
allow me to be more explicit and understandable. It's in Hungarian. I
translated everything.
We'll start with music. Hungarian is the most rhythmic language I know.
The one who knows Bartók knows what I am talking about.
André reads the text in Hungarian.
Everyone applauds, once the reading is over.
You have not understood what I have just read. There is a kind of
meaning, but everything always depends on the sound. Hungarian is not like the Western
languages, or even like Hebrew, which are languages of ideas. Many ideas are
evoked in the Bible. But there is not this external side of the Hungarian
language. The Hungarian people have existed for about a thousand years. We do
not need to discuss what may be new from Hungary. It is necessary to seek its
foundation.
Now we are going to do something more limiting. I will read a text. I
will start by reading it in Hebrew.
André reads the texts in Hebrew, then in Hungarian.
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